From south-bay-birds-bounces+south-bay-birds-archive=[[email protected]] Mon Sep 22 10:12:33 2003 Received: from www.plaidworks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by plaidworks.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8MH90IC026660 for <[[email protected]]>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:09:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by plaidworks.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8MH7JZP026601 for <[[email protected]]>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [[email protected]] by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id 4.d3.22905786 (4560); Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:07:11 -0400 (EDT) From: [[email protected]] Message-ID: <[[email protected]]> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:07:11 EDT Subject: Re: [SBB] Golden Plover To: [[email protected]], [[email protected]] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6018 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.2+ Cc: X-BeenThere: [[email protected]] X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2+ Precedence: list List-Id: South Bay Birding List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: south-bay-birds-bounces+south-bay-birds-archive=[[email protected]] Errors-To: south-bay-birds-bounces+south-bay-birds-archive=[[email protected]] All, Having the opportunity to look at photographs of the American Golden-Plover is an interesting exercise but one should use extreme care in determining things such as color, especially when those photographs were taken under poor lighting conditions [early morning]. I can't testify for sure as to digital images but in the past different types of film yielded fairly different colors [fast films being too blue and slower films being too red]. In any case no one has attested to the accuracy of the color seen on the bird in question [I don't think that we can assume that the color seen in the photos is in fact the actual color of the bird]. Let's face it, the American Golden-Plover and the Pacific Golden-Plover are both Golden-Plovers. The Golden-Plover seen Saturday had a fairly golden and striped crown and a fairly golden lower back, upper tail coverts and tertials, the remaining wings were much less golden and therefore tended to favor the American Golden-Plover identification. I'm not sure if I saw all of the pictures that Tom has posted but none of them seem to show the black spots under the belly very well. Golden-Plovers acquire the black on the lower parts during migration north and lose it during migration south. Therefore the Golden-Plover that has been seen for some time at the same place where Tom's photos were taken is surely not a juvenile as it has large black spots extending well under it [at least as far as the area of the vent]. This is evidence that it is a post breeding dispersal adult, not a non-breeding adult. Note: both American and Pacific Golden-Plovers have golden edged tertials Spacing of the primary tips is not obvious in Tom's photos whereas even spacing of the primaries was visible in scopes and was well described in Bill Bousman's original write-up [Pacific Golden-Plovers have unequal spacing of the outer primaries]. As for the primary extension being marginal [did not appear so to me in real time nor in Bill's original sighting] extra feather wear from a long migration by an American Golden-Plover might shorten the feathers a bit but we still had three plus primary tips extending past the end of the tail. The shortness of primary extension on Pacific Golden-Plovers [very evident on the bird I saw last Saturday in Salt Pond A-16], usually limited to two primary tips, is accentuated by the fact that the outer primary extends a very short distance beyond the next inner primary where the uneven spacing is most obvious. My feeling is that photographs are useful in backing up visual identifications when taken during the visual examination and may make for an interesting identification exercise but that they have limitations that are not always obvious. In any case apparent coloring of the bird in question [a highly subjective feature] would not take precedence over the long primary extension [fairly obvious to me in Tom's photos] and the even spacing of the primaries [both highly objective features]. The bird in question is surely a post breeding [not non-breeding] adult American Golden-Plover. Take care, Bob Reiling, 9:37 AM _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. south-bay-birds mailing list ([[email protected]]) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://www.plaidworks.com/mailman/options/south-bay-birds/south-bay-birds-archive%40plaidworks.com This email sent to [[email protected]]